As the wave of talking about identity verification (IDV) in second life drove back, it was time to push things up again. Today, Everett Linden had an unpleasant duty to come up before the residents and fire up an another provoking blog post. Everett was there to remind us about upcoming change of the rules and not to clarify what the restricted content is.
As a general rule, Restricted Content is any content that is explicitly sexual or excessively violent in nature. For guidance, consider AO-Rated (Adults Only) video games or R-rated movies.
There are many questions if one can freely fuck in own skybox on own land. It is not quite clear from the post. Hardly we will hear that from the Lindens. What is explicit, excessive and broadly offensive is not upon them to decide.
If Residents and businesses choose not to [flag restricted content], land containing adult content that is not clearly marked will be easily identifiable by the community. Resident can raise concerns directly with the landowner or with Linden Lab via the Abuse channel.
No way this is going to work on the good for the community. Yes, I understand Lindens won't to be the one who sets the standards but, after all, they are the final instance when the first abuse report has been filled.
And there is a serious consern abot community as a judge of common behaviour. As JJValero Writer pointed:
In Second Life there are members of many different cultures. Some cultures are but restrictive that others. As we have seen before, we are not rating things by the same standards.
Second life is a huge worldwide community. And, you know, this is not only about second life. Meatspace has the same problem. Can we handle the diversity of our planet? Can we live with the fact that on the neighbouring sim, people are doing things we don't? Or we will run for the highest common denominator which will keep everybody safe but nobody pleased?
As I read it, not only can’t you fuck on your own unflagged land, you can’t have a sex bed on your own unflagged land.
And, yes, as I said after Robin Linden’s statement, this *does* mean that I will be banned from my own property.
This “clarification” leaves more unanswered than ever, but clearly indicates the Lindens’ thinking: maximum restrictions, and a pathetic and hostile attempt to shift their legal liabilities onto the Residents.
I’m not going to rush to conclusions, but I’m thinking very strongly of terminating my SL investment and development plans. I can’t imagine creating a place where anyone who wants to visit will have to disclose personal data to unreliable third parties.
I don’t want to jump to conclusions too… but to me it sounds like “you can fuck on your own land if your neighbours and everybody who is passing by tolerate that”. Which is even worse. If I am not free to use my property anyway I wish, then that is not a private property.
And now, after 106 or so comments, the thread on official blog is closed.
After posting at Soph’s site, I found that the same comment applies here, so why should I take the effort to write it again, when there is cut+paste handy?
Here it goes…
By now, I think we all suspect that flagging is a way for LL to secure their legal asses (Gwin has a good article about it). So is it the ToS, that become more and more abusive with each change.
That doesn’t means that the effects will not be messy, and that residents shouldn’t be worried. I don’t think I will ever register, don’t even know if I can, being from Spain… and my home has a nude cuddle caldarium; it is possible that I end ejected from the land I love? Will I have to tame the place to satisfly all the biggots that find it? and will it be enough?
I still have the hope that when the rule applies, they will start at the more obvious sites, that there will be too many denounces and they will be ignored, as they do now with general griefing… but that whould leave them legally open again, so it is easy they will simply restrict first and never ask back.
I feel like the sleeping Britain, seeing the nazis eating Europe bit by bit. I don’t want to fight now, but maybe later will be too late (it almost was then, isn’t it?). But how can I fight?
Not with words, I’m afraid. LL has other objectives in mind that the wellfare of their long term users, and will not listen to them. They want to avoid lawsuits, and will keep targeting quantity against quality.
I don’t say that’s bad or evil; it is their enterprise and their objectives. But it is bad for me and my friends, and even so I’ll probably stay slumbering, hoping that my little corner will be ignored, while Europe falls.
I miss the dream.
London, I like the comparison with the Europe during mid 20th century. But the question is, what one can do. I did my best to list some ways of protesting months ago, but those are mostly activities from meatspace. This is different environment which asks for different ways of fighting.
I am an optimist though. In the worst scenario, we will keep low profile until OpenSim doesn’t get animations and scripts. Then we will host whatever we please on the sims that are really our own.
I had the resources for an art contest set aside, paying L$100k total to a group of winners. The purpose was to launch a publication in SL about virtual worlds.
Now, I’m doing neither. I refuse to start a contest that must be Disney clean. I refuse to publish a magazine that I have to make sure is only sent out to verified people if there is anything adult in it. I refuse to build a new foundation on something so sandy as the Linden’s TOS.
So, they’ve converted me from someone who believed in the venue and wanted to contribute to its diversity and artistry, to someone who will now just use it as much as I can, not willing to risk giving anything of real value back. Kudos, LL, eventually you’ll have the big mall and food court you want to make SL into, and someone else will create a world for us worthy of our efforts.
Unless you engage in sexual or violent activities in second life this will not effect you.
As this is the case I am not concerned about verification.
I wonder if like your payment status this too will be visible on a users profile and create a split in the community.
Weirdos, sickos and perverts will verify while the rest who do not engage in such activities will not.
Personally I welcome a rating system as I DON’T want to enter these sims/parcels by mistake and I see the advantages for those that do engage in such activities as greifers will be among those not verifying their age.
If all is lost, and our little Metaverse goes to hell because of the idiocy of LL, we’re not all screwed. SL is open-sourced. Take a look at OpenSim. There are 2-3 open grids based on it; it’s only a matter of time before OpenSim grows to perfectly emulate a LL simulator. Good thing is, OS will be -better- than LL’s sims, as they’re open-source.
So, all in all, LL can choke on lawsuits for requiring SS numbers, while we all happily sip tea in our mansions on free sims, that we, the people, can host without paying 200USD+ per month for them.
My Question is,
What are we to do if people in a estate we own fail to mark items.
Are we the estate owners responsible and can be the ones to get in to trouble?
Good question, Digital. And I refuse to mark any of my estate as mature until LL starts answering hard questions like that instead of blathering on about “trust” and how we’re somehow responsible for enforcing their TOS.
I really feel this is a way linden lab is throwing all this crap on us to do and making it our responsibility, I don’t pay all this money to have to manage who comes in and who goes out of the game. And whats going to happen if someone marks items in the region as mature etc, will other residents living in my estate not be allowed to enter unless they verify? This is utter bull shit.
As for this estate owner, I have protected myself by selling my sims. I figured I might as well get money for them before SL collapses or there’s a glut of islands for sale when this actually hits.
Product sales have been in the toilet since the casino ban and the resulting run on the banks. Land rentals are barely worth the trouble as it is, and this makes it worse. When they up the private island tiers again that’ll probably be the final nail in the coffin.
ok.. lets start this with WHO I am;
a parent of a 12 year old. who lives in chicago but from new orleans (that little place on earth thats FAMOUS for holding some of the largest parties on earth, flashing, fetish gatherings, group sex parties.. long story short.. i am ANYTHING BUT prude) the uncle of 4 more ages 9 to 16… a PROUD webmaster for 6 different adult sites… a proud activist in MANY groups that continually fight for the rights of the american public NOT to be censored in the multitudes of ways the “old catholic ladies societies” are continually coming out with. (in order to fight.. you have to stand up for yourself and DO something.. not just complain about it in a forum.. by the way.. )
second life;
i started by helping friends design clubs and casino’s .. since the fall of them.. a lot have switched over to the next best thing.. adult. great idea.. actually.. i run two of my own now.. and also have a mansion on an island for VIP members.. not only do i have no problems with adult sims … I RUN THEM…
now that you have an idea about me;
my take on the whole thing;
as i said.. I WORK FOR A LIVING for adult sites.. (no.. im not going to get into WHAT..) there ARE PLENTY of AVS’s out there that DO do a GREAT job of not letting the mass hordes of young children out there on their sites. I’m sorry.. but half of the things out there… (and im talking second life here) i DO NOT want my son, nieces and nephews, or their friends seeing.. much less participating in. i dont care how you want to argue it.. there are waaay too many variables that i dont think ANY of them are mature enough to see. do I support LL doing an AVS??
HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT~~~ what needs to be done is a GOOD 3rd party brought in .. someone who has experience in the field.. and YES there are MORE than enough out there… and NO.. just because they have a copy of your drivers licence.. they are not going to come and take your nintendo WII..trailor home.. or volkswagen rabbit… ok.. im not pointing any fingers here.. im trying to make a point… not only does LL have to worry about lawsuits bringing down what im sure is a multi-billion dollar empire… theyre actually doing THE RIGHT THING!!! and NO!! the teen grid SHOULD NOT have av’s screwwing their brains out in a skybox… and if thats the case.. a sim not rated mature shouldnt either! what exactlly is the difference between creating a teen AV and creating an ALT?? … NOTHING!! so whats to stop a 12 year old, like my son.. (besides me and a leather belt) from creating an alt on the main grid.. and going into a “fr33 SEX r00m!!” ?!?!?
NOTHING!!
and SHAME ON YOU linden for letting it go on THIS long!! as i said… i do ADULT websites for a living.. IT’S EASY to get a third party AVS!! takes MAYBE the work of a days time… I KNOW.. IVE DONE IT BEFORE MYSELF (acted as liason.. worked the details, etc) FOR FLEDGLING SITES!!!!!!! Dont try to tell me it takes time and research!!! ESPECIALLY this long…
so it falls back to “can i have sex on my own property??…
i ask..
are you old enough to be doing that in the first place or real life??
and if so…
why do you have such a problem in proving it???????
Rodger:
Wrong. It will affect all the grid, at least from the second hand. It will affect economy and land prices (again). More importaint, it will affect cosial component of the grid. What will happen when organized groups of residents start roaming around watching after public decency? You can safely bet there will be such groups. We have unofficial police forces who claim themself important in their own eyes by “firghting” the griefers. You can expect some “concerned mothers” to start messing around too. Not to mention that this divide the community, which is already fucked up on those who are verified and engage in sex and/or combat and those who do not. To illustrate, your comment started with this division.
To answer your question, yes, it will be visible in the profile what resident’s data are verified.
And after all, what is so wrong with being engaged in sex? Why am I called sick, perv and weird because I like to write and play interactive erotic games with my friends? Why do I need to be marked in my profile because of that?
Vulpine, yes, we shall meet on OpenSim. Zion will remain free :p
Sedary, Digital… For months I am puzzled if LL just play stupid and deliberatly avoids answers on important questions or they are really clumzy enough not to see what mess they will produce. Or they are just buying some time to see how it will go and to let rezidents shoot their rage. Just as it is unclear if one can be free on own property, I really don’t know who is the responsible party in owner/renter/visitor scheme.
Harwood, I understand that there are many things in SL and on the web one doesn’t feel like showing to kids. Hell, no matter how open-minded I feel, there are things I don’t like to see and don’t feel healthy. But, as long as all the participants consent…. go for it., I’ll find my fun elsewhere.
When you ask if I am old enough to have sex in the first life… I don’t remember there is any age restriction for having sex in RL, but yes, I am over 18. Why do I have a problem proving it?
Because it is illegal in my country to give passport number and similar data to any foreign service. Not that I am afraid I woul dgo to jail even if I break that law, but I don’t want to break it.
Even if it was not against the law, do I want to leave my RL name and numbers all over the world? No, I don’t. There is enough of my data there already. And especially, I don’t want to give it to a company which also sells demographcs data. As Robin Linden said: it is all about trust. Just the same as I can choose to trust in my cybersex adventures, business etc… I can choose if I am going to truset LL and Integrity Aristotle with my data. And I will not. Too many reasons for that.
After all, why do I need to verify because Lindens screwed allowing the teens on the main grid? Agreeing with implementation of IDV is forgiving Linden+s mistakes and taking the consequences on our own back. I am not going to do that.
“so it falls back to “can i have sex on my own property??…
i ask..
are you old enough to be doing that in the first place or real life??
and if so…
why do you have such a problem in proving it???????”
I am a 38 female, about to be 39 in a few months, and I don’t hoave a problem with “proving” I’m an adult, but I do have a problem with HOW SL is going about this. For one thing members/residents of SL should not be forced to be the age police inside SL because Linden Labs is too damned lazy and irresponsible to check ages at the gate for their supposedly “no one under 18 admitted” virtual world. And most certainly I have a problem with WHAT they are asking of us, which is our Social Security Numbers, and Passport ID numbers, etc. Frankly, there are huge numbers of X-rated hard core porn sites on the web whose only criteria for entry and proof of your legal adult status is a) your checked disclaimer, and b) your verified credit card number. That SL is asking above and beyond what a hard core porno business is asking is beyond the pale.
As well, if I wanted to have hard core sex in my own bedroom in real life, I don’t have to prove my age to anyone to do so. If I want to have virtual sex in my virtual private rooms in SL, what kind of crap thing is it for SL to demand I rate my private land “Restricted” ??? I don’t have to mark my real life property “Restricted” because I have sex in my bedroom, and certainly all the mummies and daddies in the Real World are not being made to toss their real life kids into the streets because *gasp* mummy and daddy have sex in their bedroom.
For a virtual world where we are allegedly all Legal Adults anyways, all this extra crap is exactly that, CRAP. Hell I could go to Red Light Central which is only about sex, and not have to do this to access adult material. Why are we being screwed over to protect minors who are illegally/illicitly access SL’s adult only grid anyways? This isn’t reasonable precautions to protect minors. These are unreasonable lengths to screw over legit member because non-legit members are deliberately breaking rules to access SL’s content.
If they only wanted a credit card number on file, fine. Its the standard of most if not all Hard Core Adult business sites. I am protected from indemnity if someone hacks their system and gets that credit card number. However If someone hacks them and takes my social security or National ID number, I’m screwed and compromised indefinitely by identity theives and identity resellers.
So if I take the OPTION of this VOLUNTARY system and will NOT verify or restrict my lands. And some prude goes “wah wah, she has a sex gen bed on her property” (which is already restricted to my personal group) and her property isn’t FLAGGED. What happens? I’m not giving you or anyone else my Social Security number, in whole or in part, that isn’t the IRS.
So I ask you, parents of minors etc, who can only access adult SL material by deliberately lying and deliberately and knowingly breaking the rules to access SL. Keep your own house in order and your rule breaking spawn off the main grid and don’t blame the SL residents who are there legitly for not doing YOUR job for you. I’m not being paid to baby sit your brats, nor am I at fault if they break into my house, SL or RL, and screw on my bed. The fault is theirs, and maybe yours for not raising them right.
Bliss Crimson
@ Bliss – This is the single most sensible thing I’ve read on the subject. Thank you!
I ask.. are you old enough to be doing that in the first place or real life?? and if so… why do you have such a problem in proving it???????
Because, Harwood, whether I’m “old enough” to have sex (in what jurisdiction, Harwood? California? Kansas? Saudi Arabia? The Netherlands?) is between me and my partners. It’s not any business of anyone reading my profile, of – as you pointed out – a third party verification compnay operating on a very different basis from the adult industry standard, and certainly not of anyone they might disclose my data to.
“If you’re not doing anything wrong, you don’t have to worry about the policeman standing over your shoulder, the wiretap on your phone, or your landlord who files reports on you.”
This kind of mentality is why the few remaining free countries tend to be those who’ve learned the falsity of that first hand.
Thanks Bliss – very well put!
The Lindens closed my account without warning because I logged on with a different IP than the one I was “supposed” to be using. The account was later restored, but I was informed that they had held it for reasons of “fraud security”.
That proved to me they were continuously monitoring my IP. And most likely all the chats and IMs are stored somewhere too.
It doesn’t increase “security” one bit, but it is a beautiful way of p*ssing honest people off. So congrats to LL for achieving that.
Otherwise I thought SL was a good backdrop to a book project I had – it was easy to create scenery, houses, characters etc., they could move about and the screenshot function was very useful to me for providing the illustrations.
If anyone knows of software that does the same thing OFFLINE, I’d be very interested. “The Sims” isn’t versatile enough unfortunately, the best tool I’ve found so far is iClone I guess, but with the add-ons I’d need it would cost a bit too much really, so I haven’t got it yet.
However, I would immediately buy OFFLINE version of SL if it was available – with all the creativity tools so I could create my own stuff and never be online at all. Also, having to be online just for creating things means SL becomes very sluggish, seems completely unnecessary – unless the whole point of SL is snooping on people of course… which doesn’t seem all that unlikely.
I will not go back to “Snooper Life”, that particular chapter is firmly over. SL feels like East Germany in the 60s to me.
Maheegan, be sure that all the conversations are logged for a while. And, being a text, they are easily searchable.
About off-line SL, I wonder if OpenSim can be your tool. I guess that only thing you’d miss now are animations, but once that feature comes in you can set your sim on your own computer and work there.
Thanks very much Dandellion. I did not know about OpenSim before – this looks very interesting indeed.
I don’t need the animations really, just need to create a background where I can use my own textures/photos and some different avatars (preferably not limited to “one per email address”, that also annoyed me with SL), have the avatars use different costumes etc., and then place them in different surroundings for illustration, maybe patch up the screenshots with Paintshop Pro etc.
And if I can work it from my own computer without logging on to any network… brilliant. I was never an SL “player” really, for me the interesting thing with SL was more about the design/textures/buildings etc.
Thanks again, this was very useful to me.
cheers
Maheegan
The way to fight this is simple, ignore it. Do not verify and do not mark your parcel. All it takes is placing the “Must be over 18 to enter” on the login screen to cover everyone’s butt.
Acrually, that is the best way to fight it. Large base of residents who will not play that game will ruin the system. In the case that the disobedient base is not large, they will be in the shadow so will pass through.