Yesterday L.A. Times posted few advices how to keep your child safe in virtual worlds. One that is of importance here is:
Make sure your child is on an age-appropriate site. Don't let your children on sites such as Second Life unless they are old enough to handle adults on their own.
Not that we haven't got used to these, but I feel like contacting the editor about it.
For more than a year, we are witnessing media spreading bad feelings about Second Life™ and the safety of it. Most of the times, accusations against Second Life are without any evidence nor even basic research on the subject. You will agree that such behaviour doesn't serve the safety of our children and is damaging the reputation of the profession.
As the source for the tips you have published you are citing researches of Common Sense Media. However, those researches doesn't even mention Second Life.
Let's take a closer look at the teens in Second Life. To register to the SL's Main Grid one has to be over 18 years old. Those between ages of 13 and 18 have their own part of the Second Life called Teen Grid. Teen Grid is teen friendly with controlled content and completely disconnected from adult's part of the world. Same as the kids are not allowed on the Main Grid, adults are kept away from the Teen Grid. Only adults there are few of the employees of Linden Lab and educators. All of them are subjects to checks of their suitability of being and working with children on the Internet.
Sure, every now and then, there is a teen who wants to take a peek at the adult's part of the virtual world. Those cases are easily spotted by Linden Lab employees, volunteering mentors and the members of the community. Several times, I have witnessed the efficiency of suspending those accounts and transfering kids back to their own grid in the matter if minutes.
As a community, we are very proud of the freedom of expression that user generated content provides, but we are also very proud of the level of child safety our world has. Spreading groundless hints won't do any good for the children, parents, community and the Linden Lab.
Thank you for taking the time to read this letter.
All the best,
dandellion Kimban
second life resident
I must say, despite all of the stories, I’ve had very few bad experiences in SL – mostly I find the residents helpful and friendly.
When I have had issues, I’ve been able to resolve them on my own without needing to involve others.
I think it’s a fantastic environment for any number of activities including art, education, creativity, building, community, meeting people, gaming, role playing and just being.
During my time in Second Life, I’ve had a lot of my preconceived ideas challenged, met great people, build things and had lots of fun… and even learned a few things about myself I didn’t previously know.
I’ve shared the space with real life friends in business and education – and have been invited to do presentations by friends and colleagues for their work groups. I discuss second life with my real life friends, family and work mates quite openly – some are amused, some curious, some amazed, some don’t really know what to make of it all and some decide to come into the world and take a look around – most who have looked and taken the time to look around and get involved have stayed.
To those who wish to criticise, I say come into the world and explore it for no less than a two week period. Be sure to look around and get out there and see places and meet people… then make your judgements. I think you’ll be quite surprised at the diversity, the kindness, the helpfulness and the community you’ll find in this space. If you are not, at least you will be making your judgements first hand and not based on what you’ve heard. Keep in mind, if you look for the dark side, you’ll probably find it – but that’s also true in the real world.
Oh no. No, no, no, no, no.
It’s not. That’s the theory (almost). The practice is different.
Firstly, there is no control (or even pretence of control) over the content. We can upload whatever we want and make whatever we want, just like you can on the MG. In fact, the only differences are the size (104 mainland sims and a peak concurrency of 500) and Community Standards, which contain an extra couple of clauses pertaining to privacy (you may not tell anyone where you live or who you are) and content (nothing mature). Oh, and all the sims are labelled PG.
Of course, these rules are completely ignored. Most people make their rough area and real name well known. It’s usually in the Picks of their profiles (since LL disabled the “1st Life” and “Web” tabs, as well as the “About” 2nd Life field). Similarly, mature content is rife. There is no attempt to keep the grid clean, and in all honesty, I imagine any such attempt would fail.
Once upon a time, in 2005, Linden Lab would keep track of these things. Today, in 2008, they do not. Similarly, I have personally witnessed the complete lack of speed with which an adult caught on the teen grid is removed – I’ve seen it take over a year to get done, and believe there are still some unresolved cases. And that’s for people who weren’t actively lying beyond putting in a false date of birth. People who are actually malicious simply have to get a child’s passport, use their name/DOB, and send it in as identification if accused.
Similarly, “not connected to the main grid” isn’t entirely true – it’s the same grid. We can view MG profiles and picks. Linden Lab routinely screw up and put MG classifieds in search (with the “mature” option set to “on”, for that matter). People periodically accidentally (or intentionally) teleport to the main grid.
No, they aren’t. I know plenty of people who have had active MG accounts for years without being caught. I know a few who still do have MG accounts.
Finally, on another note, there is very little worthwhile content on the TG. It sucks. Articles that proclaim it to be the final solution to all problems gain no support from me.
(I wonder if this comment will make any sense when I post it. My thoughts rarely do.)
Oh my, Katharine, that sounds just about horrible :( I’d love to get in touch with you and talk about TG a bit more… but since we naturally cannot meet in SL, so I wonder if you’re willing to exchange a few emails about your experience? If you can see my profile on SL, you’ll get my email address from there…
This is a nice effort, but doesn’t patch the utter ridicule of the whole subject. There is no point in having “teen-only” or “child-only” versions of a virtual world where users create content, like Second Life. It’s as if some guy came up and suggested that we should create a “child-only” Internet. Or, come to think of it, outlaw city tours by children, even if led by their parents or by their preschool teachers! Lock children in safes, in houses without windows or TV, and somehow hope they can be adults once they reach the age of 18.
Virtual worlds can be games, and in those cases it’s only logical that the providers of content need to subject themselves to age limits, such as already happens with movies and videogames in general.
But virtual worlds can also simply be places for human interaction, and society needs to integrate children, not segregate them. Obviously, this raises many of the issues already found in Web-access by children – but shouldn’t be any different.
Thank you all for the comments.
Moggs, you are right, if one is looking for the dark side, he will find it. And that is exactly what it’s all about. Mainstream media is too often searching for the dark side. If we count articles about positive sides of SL, of all the education, science, culture, charity and creativity of SL they would be just a small percent of the number of stories that points to the bad things. And we all know that that proportion doesn’t correlate to the reality.
Katherine, you won’t tell me that there are sex places on TG. I am sure that nobody checks every upload. And that is good. Child-safe environment and total surveillance are two very different things. I would be not surprised that teens are sharing some naughty images and texts, in SL, some other social network or via email. And, I am sure you know, they can find that content anywhere on the web, just by googling it. But TG doesn’t have places with adult content one can occasionally stumble upon. There is a big difference between people exchanging private mail and walking into BDSM dungeon.
I am also aware that it is possible for somebody under 18 to register on the MG. But, question for how long. It surely depends on the actual age and experience of that person. If you are cleverly silent, behaving normally and just enjoy the views and shops of decent sims you can stay forever. There is no way to be caught. But getting into conversation in a sex place reveals somebody’s age very quickly. Yes, there might be teens on the MG, but they are far away from the nasty places.
TP’ing from one grid to another and showing search results should not happen and I guess those were the bugs that you have reported. Have you?
Gwyn, I am waiting for your take on this subject.
Andabata, I cannot agree more. Segragating kids is not a way to raise them. It is a way for lousy parents to get away from the responsibilities and joys of developing their offspring. While I believe that there are some sights in SL, on the web and in the meatspace that are not for children’s eyes, I don’t think this is the way to protect them. Especially not on the cost of not having a place where kids can meet their parents, live with and learn from the adults.
But in the world where media will pump any story about dangers, where parents kick their kids to other people to educate and guard their kids, and after all, a world with psychopaths (which are the product of our fucked up society) that actually can attack and hurt children we need ridiculous measures like this. At least, until those same media, parents and the rest of the community don’t come up with healthier and safer solution.
I can and will tell you that. And I wouldn’t even be lying. They aren’t advertised (obviously), but they’re there if you just wander around. It is described as “The TG’s less PG underworld.” Profiles are another place one is liable to stumble across such things (although given picks are now easily searched, this might start to drop). I will give you that, to the best of my knowledge, there are no BDSM dungeons. Although I feel people rezzing sex beds on my land and proceeding to use them (until I notice… twenty minutes later) makes up for this. >.>
The search bugs are reported, and several weeks later someone might even look at the report. And maybe fix it, too. But then they break it again. As they have several times. The teleport bugs report themselves, apparently. It seems to send out some sort of emergency message when it happens.
It is not email. It’s very much in SL. It only gets caught when someone’s stupid enough to IM all their friends and happens to have a Linden in their friend list (which does happen every so often).
I do feel that you’re now picking at a different point when you say that any teens on the MG are well away from the nasty places. I know that. We all know that. Most teens have no interest in being in the nasty places in the first place. Almost all teens have an interest in being on the main grid, however, because the teen grid sucks. Most people on the teen grid actually have a main grid alt (but reporting them from the TG is futile even if you want to – the report is apparently ignored.)
I note that you made no points on the fact that adults are actually on the TG.
Dandellion, I think it’s going a bit too far saying “until those same media, parents and the rest of the community don’t come up with healthier and safer solution.”
Excuse me? I have kids. I am a parent. Why should I be barred from enjoying SL with my kids if I decide I should? Heck, I can take my kids wherever I deem appropriate in RL, and I will be held accountable for it. Why should I lose my rights as a father to decide what’s best for my children?
Children-safe environments are great, and there’s a place for them. Heck, even today my older child spent some extra minutes by herself playing on-line Noddy games once I had to start working and could no longer play with her. It’s good to know that nothing bad will pop out. But I think there is a fundamental error in trying to match Second Life with Noddy. Second Life should be matched with the Web: a platform for development, information, and communication, not a boxed and set kit.
Doing these comparisons may make sense business-wise, but I’m afraid it will hinder SL more than it will help.
Katherine, you made me wanting to sneak in there and see the underground :)
Email or transfering objects from one resident to another in SL is not much of the difference. I wanted to point the difference of private exchange (medium doesn’t matter) and publishing something so that anybody can see it.
Pointing that teens on MG (or anywhere) are away from the nasty places is actually the main point. Far from that they are not interested in adult content, they are. But not in the way that mainstream media wants to present it. Check the post about how different ages relate to adult content.
Yes, I skipped the point of adults on the TG. I don’t know anything about it. I saw kids trying to sneak into MG and I saw, many times, how they have been taken back. But I have no experience of the opposite case.
Andabata, the letter above tried to describe the state of facts as they are, not as they should be. I agree that this system, even if it was perfectly working and breaking-proof is far from a good solution. There is no reason why parents and kids should be separated. And yes, parents are the oly one responsible for their kids.
But SL and Web are also two different systems. Once again, SL should be organized as Web, but we are very far from that. Web is not held by one company. Web is not located in one country. Web is not one system but a set of standards upon which everybody is free to build and develop. And yes, SL, if wants to be successful n the long run, should be like that.Then the system of separated TG and MG would have a competition in the form of independent islands where different generations can live together, with different levels (and ways) of security, and with different organization of the content.
I cannot agree more, dandellion!
Although I do protest the mentioning as Second Life as an example of ‘dangerous place’ the advice itself is great.
Who said anything about “private exchange”? I am also entirely unconvinced that you know what people want to see at various ages. Anyone who claims they do is inevitably wrong.
And for reference, I know of a variety of people who are or were nine years old on both the MG and TG, and didn’t vanish off.
And this blog needs a box to remember the name/email/URI. And, for that matter, why would I post a URI that wasn’t a URL anyway?
As somebody who was 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20…. years old… as somebody whose friends are of various age, and as a long time journalist writing for teen and youth population, I am fairly convinced that I have some ideas what people want and do at various ages, as well as that there are differences based on gender, country, family and surrounding influence as well as individual inclinations.
Thanks fopr the suggestion, I’ll install that plugin.
Vint, I agree on the advice too. Spending some time with kids while they are making their first steps in the wilderness of the Internet can be one of pleasures of the parenthood. And is also a great responsibility.
[...] http://metaverse.acidzen.org/2008/open-letter-about-child-safety-to-la-times#comment-5386 [...]
Isn’t that what real life is for?
The above post should have been in italics, (except for the last line) oh well. So – only the last line in the above post was mine. The first paragraph was quoted from ‘dandelion’ who apparently thinks playing a video game with your child online outweighs the very real risk of exposing them to pedophiles and other types.
I also find it strange that playing a video game side by side is seen as “living with their parents.” Hopefully your children already live with their parents. Breaking apart Second Life so you can drag them in alongside you instead of spending time with them away from your computers is selfish in the extreme.
Sounds like some of you should listen to Katherine instead of trying to hush/sanitise her reports from the actual TG.
I think you have missed the post to comment on. This one is about media spreading lies and causing panic (usually for the sake of sensationalism), your comment would probably better fit after the post about why teen grid and main grid should be merged . But nevertheless….
If you think that only place where kids and adults should meet is the "real life" why don’t you plug-out your Internet connection? That’s a very effective way to protect your kids from seeing dirty stuff online.
I don’t see anything strange playing video games with one’s offspring. Kids do that, their parents do… so there is no reason why not to have some family fun. Same goes for spending time in SL. If parents do it and kids do it… then….
And then… second life is not a game. Many of us use it as a game or game platform and past-time, but it is not just a game. It’s a social network and an education tool and what not. That is why it is so interesting for kids. And that is where kids and adults are supposed to meet. In SAFE environment.
dandelion,
You are misquoting me, or you have misunderstood my post.
I did not say the only place kids and adults should MEET is “real life.” I said if you want to hang out with your kids, walk down the hallway and spend some time with them away from your computer. Well I didn’t say it that bluntly actually but maybe a bit blunter will make it clearer.
The point is not to tell you what to do with your kids – the point is to tell you that Second Life is NOT a safe place to bring them, if the goal is to spend time with them then play a table game with them in your own home. Rather than shake existing SL upside down, and expose them to the danger of literally the entire WORLD being able to chat with them.
The adults here are not listening to the one person who was ON the teen grid. Shouldn’t you do that? How is LL going to protect kids, and manage this safely and effectively, if it has done so badly with the existing teen grid with only a couple thousand members there? How is it going to keep kids safe, their parents cannot watch them all the time, they will be in LL with a false sense of safety “well they said we could come on in!” and their parents may naively think SL will be safe for the kids too.
Yes they can get into SL now, but there are safeguards against it, and why suddenly is LL wanting teens and kids IN where it has said in past they should not be?
I agree with you that adults and kids should only meet in a “SAFE environment” as you put it. Second Life isn’t it! Keep them in the teen grid at least there are some measures of safety in there.
And PS I wasn’t talking about merging the teen and main grid, LL has said they will not do that “for now” – but it’s also clear that whether they do not shut down the existing teen grid, putting kids and teens into the existing Second Life IS in the plans. They keep saying so!
No, I don’t understand what are you trying to say. You are contradicting yourself (and it’s not your first time):
First you say you’re not my child’s SL babysitter, then expect SL to be everybody’s SL babysitter. Thing is, only persons responsible for the kids are their parents.
Then you call katherine as a witness of un-sfety of TG, but you say that TG is safe enough to keep kids there.
What I really don’t understand is why you keep SL on the spot for something the whole web can be accused for?